I wrote before how some people admit if they foul when no one is looking, and others don't/wont.
I wrote it has to do with your internal ethic meter, maybe how you were raised, sometimes it even depends on what the score is or if you are in a team event or not.
I ran across an interesting scenario last weekend during the Omega Tour tournament. I saw this happen one other time on the the Ladies Tour I ran, and each similar situation still baffles me.
Long story short, a player called three fouls on himself. The additional problem was, it was hill-hill.
Some people are so honest, that the concept of NOT letting their opponent know they have just committed their third foul is just unfathomable to them.
In this situation, a player called me over and gave me the scenario. "Uh, well, I just told my opponent he's on two fouls, and he tells me, 'well, actually, that was my third foul in a row, so I just lost.' "
I stood there confused.
The player shares, almost with a sad, conflicted admission, "Melinda, it's hill-hill."
He was conflicted about the whole situation. He was dumbfounded and didn't know what to do. He hadn't told his opponent he was on two fouls until he thought he was on two, and now his opponent is telling him, "oh, I already was, so I lost."
I told his opponent that he isn't suppose to call fouls on himself. He looked deflated. You could tell he was internally upset that he did the right thing by admitting he was already on three fouls, yet I am telling him he needs to shoot again.
He tried to explain that he was on three fouls and deserved the loss. Yet his opponent and I are trying to almost plead with him that he's not suppose to call them on himself, tho.
He finally just gave up the fight. I was asked watch the hit (it was a really close shot), he fouled, and then it was officially three fouls in a row and he lost hill-hill.
I tried desperately to explain he shouldn't call two or three fouls on himself and so did his opponent. He finally told me, "Melinda, I hear what you are saying, I really do, but I know I will call this on myself in the future if it comes up."
You see, some people are just that honest. No matter how many ways I could explain to him why or show him the rule book that it's his opponents' responsibility to put him on two/three, he was not going to accept the fact because it is kind of lying or cheating in his eyes and heart.
And that's okay.
Showing posts with label Fouls. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Fouls. Show all posts
Tuesday, June 27, 2017
Wednesday, June 1, 2016
Admitting to Fouls or Not?
What do you do when you foul and no one's looking?
If you're down 0-6 in a match and you're about to get beat out of a tournament, do you call a foul on yourself or just let it go? What about if you're in a team event and it's hill-hill, but no one sees you foul?
I was told in the mid-90s by a great player that it's your opponents job to pay attention to the match. Therefore she was of the opinion it's not your obligation to tell your opponent if you fouled. Of course, this person was around gambling her entire life, so maybe her perspective is different? However, the other side of the coin is, you want to do what's right and you would want to be able to sleep at night knowing that you didn't cheat your opponent. But is that cheating if your opponent wasn't paying attention and didn't see it? Or is it cheating if you just didn't say anything?
I remember one time I was playing scotch doubles in Vegas with a really good partner and I thought I fouled when I shot my shot. So as he came to the table to shoot, I whispered under my breath to him, "hey, I think I fouled." He just kept walking by me to shoot his turn. I asked him later if he heard me and he said, "yes I did, but I acted like I didn't hear you or that you didn't foul." It was very weird for me because I respect this guys game very much and he's a very good player, but I had no idea that he would do something like that.
Before Facebook, players used AZBilliards forums to discuss such instances. I recall one very vividly where a teammate fouled and didn't honor up, and he was blasted on the forums and his fellow teammate said he'd never play with that guy again. We all knew who it was and every year we would see the "perpetrator" at Texas BCAPL State and whisper and point our fingers at him.
But that's only because it was brought up to the forefront.
Some players remain staunch on the ruling, "well you didn't have a ref present, so it goes to the shooter" (themselves). Even if they know they fouled, they use the rule as their "excuse" not to give up ball-in-hand. And in actuality, that's the rule and is true. (however, the rules also talk about unsportsmanlike conduct which this could be considered as.) But can that person sleep at night knowing they did indeed foul and didn't do the "proper" thing?
I think what is "proper" depends on the person and also on the situation at hand.
I think it also depends on your mood and the
situation if you give up fouls or not. If you're the type of person that
/always/ gives up a foul, I commend you, because that's not easy to do. As
the philosophical thought experiment says, "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"
Do people really give up fouls because someone else might have seen it, or or because they know that they fouled?
What if you are royally pissed off in a match at your opponent or yourself? Emotions sometimes decipher our decisions as well.
And
then of course a lot of people believe in karma so they think, "well if
I don't admit to this foul then something like this might happen to me
later."
Hitting balls with a friend with no money on the line? Fess up right away, right?
So you can see there's a lot that factors into this honor system:
I think all of those factor into if you decide to tell your opponent if you fouled or not. It's not black or white or yes or no for some people. Some people it's ALWAYS fess up, others it's situation-dependent.
If you're down 0-6 in a match and you're about to get beat out of a tournament, do you call a foul on yourself or just let it go? What about if you're in a team event and it's hill-hill, but no one sees you foul?
I was told in the mid-90s by a great player that it's your opponents job to pay attention to the match. Therefore she was of the opinion it's not your obligation to tell your opponent if you fouled. Of course, this person was around gambling her entire life, so maybe her perspective is different? However, the other side of the coin is, you want to do what's right and you would want to be able to sleep at night knowing that you didn't cheat your opponent. But is that cheating if your opponent wasn't paying attention and didn't see it? Or is it cheating if you just didn't say anything?
I remember one time I was playing scotch doubles in Vegas with a really good partner and I thought I fouled when I shot my shot. So as he came to the table to shoot, I whispered under my breath to him, "hey, I think I fouled." He just kept walking by me to shoot his turn. I asked him later if he heard me and he said, "yes I did, but I acted like I didn't hear you or that you didn't foul." It was very weird for me because I respect this guys game very much and he's a very good player, but I had no idea that he would do something like that.
I've
heard of several stories where Pros have called fouls on themselves in key
moments of big tournaments and the crowd shows them accolades and people talk about it for weeks and weeks after about their ethics. Of course, you also hear
when people foul, but don't fess up. People talk about both extremes.
Before Facebook, players used AZBilliards forums to discuss such instances. I recall one very vividly where a teammate fouled and didn't honor up, and he was blasted on the forums and his fellow teammate said he'd never play with that guy again. We all knew who it was and every year we would see the "perpetrator" at Texas BCAPL State and whisper and point our fingers at him.
But that's only because it was brought up to the forefront.
I think what is "proper" depends on the person and also on the situation at hand.
Do people really give up fouls because someone else might have seen it, or or because they know that they fouled?
What if you are royally pissed off in a match at your opponent or yourself? Emotions sometimes decipher our decisions as well.
Hitting balls with a friend with no money on the line? Fess up right away, right?
- how you were raised
- how you live your life
- did anyone see?
- do you answer to God?
- can you sleep well at night?
- is it a team event?
- is it a big state or nationals tournament with a lot on the line?
- first match
- or finals?
- are you in a certain frame of mind or certain mood?
- etc.
I think all of those factor into if you decide to tell your opponent if you fouled or not. It's not black or white or yes or no for some people. Some people it's ALWAYS fess up, others it's situation-dependent.
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